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ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am.

Donald Trump is known for being the loudest, most controversial, and outburst-prone politician of our time.

Now a judge has issued a gag order against him, to try and prevent more outbursts.

So can Donald Trump really be told to be quiet? And will orders from the courts begin to hamper his chances of being re-elected as president?

Today, Senior Fellow at the United States Studies Centre, and author of Trump’s Australia Bruce Wolpe, on whether Trump’s legal battles are finally catching up with him.

It’s Thursday, April 4

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ANGE:

Bruce, this week, Donald Trump's legal battles were back in the spotlight, and this time a judge expanded a gag order on the former president. Can you explain what's going on?

BRUCE:

Yeah. Trump hates what's going on. He hates that these indictments have been brought against him, that he faces trials all across the country, that they're going after him. And what he says is; what they are doing to me is to drive me off the ballot, rig the election, have Joe Biden win re-election. It is all political. You have the Democratic president instructing the Democratic attorney general, instructing all the forces of justice in this country to take me down. And you know it, and I know it, and it stinks.

Audio excerpt — Trump:

“Every single one of them is run by Biden and his thugs. The only way they think they can get elected, and I think so far it's backfiring because the people of this country understand it. You take a look at any one of them and you say any one of them, it wouldn't make any difference. This is all weaponisation of DOJ and FBI. They raided my house.”

BRUCE:

And so everyone who's an agent in this, from Biden to the attorney general to the judge, to the judges staff, to the judge's family, is target. And he says, I have a First Amendment right. I'm running for president. Can you imagine they're doing this to a presidential candidate? The hell with it.

Audio excerpt — Trump:

“But the judge is corrupt, in my opinion. he’s the most overturned judge he’s been overturned 5 times in this case alone…”

BRUCE:

This is a trial that is to begin on April 15th in New York. The charges, he paid hush money to a porn star to keep her quiet in the run up to the 2016 election. The payment was made right after the Access Hollywood tape, in which Trump bragged about groping women's bodies. A lot of people, when that tape came out, deserted his campaign, a lot of Republicans, and he didn't want any more damage. So money was paid and nothing else came out, and he got by. So that's what the trial is all about. And he has made wanton attacks on the prosecutors, the judges, their families.

Audio excerpt — Reporter 1:

“Attacking the judge, attacking his wife, attacking the children, attacking all the other prosecutors…”

BRUCE:

Any judge that's appointed by a Democrat or is a Democrat, or has a family with a Democrat, is fair game for him.

Audio excerpt — CNN:

“So Trump has found someone new to attack Judge Juan Merchan's daughter. In a new post tonight he calls her out by name. Trump goes after her as a, quote, rabid Trump hater, because she's done work for Democratic campaigns in the past. He didn't stop there, he also accused her of posting a picture of him behind bars, which Trump says, quote, makes it completely impossible for me to get a fair trial’ I should note, however, that that is apparently not true. The New York state court system says that long ago judge Merchan’s daughter abandoned that Twitter account, and that it's also not linked to her email.”

BRUCE:

And this is incompatible with norms of justice and how judicial proceedings should unfold. And he's crossed lines. And the judge has seen, and the district attorney in New York is stating that, Trump's continued outbursts threaten the integrity of the trial. So what he did was say to Trump, you can attack me, you can attack the prosecutor, but you can't attack anybody else. If he opens his mouth and says something really disgusting, he's going to get fined. If he does it again, he'll get fined some more. And if he does it again, he might even go to jail. So, have a nice day. So that's what's at stake. The highest politics and the highest test of the rule of law.

ANGE:

And this case obviously isn't, as you mentioned, the only legal battle Trump is fighting right now and frankly, they can be a little bit hard to keep up with. Can you remind us where his other cases are up to, and what he's going to be facing before the November election?

BRUCE:

The trial in New York in two weeks may be the only trial that's conducted and concluded before the election. Trump’s strategy is to delay, delay, delay. And he uses, I mean, he's an expert at it. Throughout his real estate career, his business career, he's been in more lawsuits than you and I have books in a library. And what he wants to do is postpone these trials until after the election. And what he certainly wants is not to have a conviction before the election, because that gets you into new territory. The biggest case is the case in Washington. Did Trump try to criminally overturn the 2020 election in the January 6th insurrection? Whether that case proceeds, it was ready to go. But Trump has said, oh, I have something that I really want tested. I believe that I'm immune for any and all official acts I took as president, and I have immunity from prosecution. So you can't run this trial. Well, that argument has now gone to the Supreme Court. People fear that the Supreme Court will not make a decision on the immunity issue until June or July, and that means that it could be 2 to 3 months after that for trial to get underway. That puts it perilously close to the election, and that creates its own dynamics of what's fair and just. So that is the big case that's pending. The other big case is in Georgia, did he try and overturn the election in Georgia? Remember the phone call? You know what I need? Just find me 11,720 votes. You know? You know what…

Audio excerpt — Trump:

“11, 780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state…”

BRUCE:

Well, that trial has gotten very complicated between the prosecutor, the lead attorney, a romantic affair and all kinds of stuff.

Audio excerpt — CBS:

“A court filing by a Trump co-defendant in the Georgia election case alleges Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis hired an attorney while being in a romantic relationship with that attorney.”

BRUCE:

That will not get off the ground this year. So we have this trial in New York. We had already concluded the business fraud trial, in which he posted a bond this week of $175 million dollars while he appeals that. But the big question is, is there going to be a major trial on the January 6th insurrection, which is, if you think about it, that's the heart of the issue with Donald Trump. Is he an enemy of democracy? And did he commit acts that fundamentally harmed the stability of the United States and the Constitution of the United States? That's the biggie.

ANGE:

And that legal issue and the other ones that you were speaking about have kind of hung over Donald Trump ever since he left the white House, but with sort of seemingly little effect on his ability to run for the presidency again. Do you think we're seeing a turning point, though? Are the legal dramas finally catching up with him?

BRUCE:

In one sense, yes. But again, this platform of they're coming after me because they don't want me on the ballot, but why are they coming after me? Because I represent you. And so when they indict me, they're indicting you. And if they take me out, you will not get... you, my people, my base, the people that I represent. You know what you want me to do. By taking me out, you won't get political justice in this country. And that is, potent politics. That's why, you know, in Australia we say this is rusted on, this is welded on. So he's got 70% of the Republican Party welded onto him. But, that in and of itself is not enough to win. He needs some other Republicans. He needs some Democrats. He needs things to work in his way. And so that shows a possible opening for Biden to gain some support, but Biden has immense problems.

His age is an immense problem. Young people especially have that sentiment. Young people were key to Biden's winning in 2020. Young people are also generally anti-war. The war in Gaza is huge and that is also a drag on him. And then the third factor here is enthusiasm. Again, Trump's voters are hugely enthusiastic, and they can't wait to vote for him. Biden doesn't have the same degree of enthusiasm. And it's not compulsory voting, voluntary voting. So if you're enthusiastic, you're going to vote. You're not enthusiastic, you might stay home, you might have a cheeseburger, I don't know. You won't have a democracy sausage. They don't serve those in America. It's very, very distressing when you vote here. Terrible. So those are some of the factors which show that Trump, again, may be hitting a ceiling and he needs to figure out a way to get more, Biden needs to hold him to less.

Ange:

Coming up after the break, what are Trump’s chances of becoming president again?

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Ange:

Bruce, we're now really getting into the US election in earnest. Donald Trump and Joe Biden are the only two candidates who can be nominated from here, and both have started to campaign. Just how strong are Donald Trump's chances of becoming president again?

BRUCE:

It's 50-50. It's a jump ball. I can't read it yet. I don't know who's going to win. In fact, no one... everyone has hopes, no matter what side of politics you're on. But, we don't know what the outcome is going to be. In the national polls, Biden has edged up a little bit since the State of the Union. It was seen as a pretty strong speech, and he's been doing things a lot. He's been going to all the swing states.

Audio excerpt — Reporter 2:

“As the US presidential race heats up, all eyes are on the swing states that could determine the outcome of the election in November.”

BRUCE:

Trump until this week, hadn't had a major rally since the state of the Union. This week he's been in Michigan and Wisconsin. And those are very key states, so he's out there.

Audio excerpt — Trump:

“Once peaceful suburban Michigan is really now... you're under an invasion, and there's no way you can vote for this guy. I mean, look, I don't want to be too casual about it.”

BRUCE:

So in the national polls Biden is up a point or two. But in those swing states, and we're talking about Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia, those are, again, jump ball. You can see how close it is. And they're going to fight it out to the very end. Florida just did something really important. The Supreme Court there ruled the ban on abortions after six week is legal in Florida. This means there will be almost no abortions in Florida, Florida's the biggest source of reproductive rights, health care for women, in the South. Between 60 to 70% of Americans want women to be able to have to control their rights on abortion. Secondly, they said you can put it on the ballot and it will be on the ballot in November. A referendum to amend the Constitution in the state to have with the more permissive rules for abortion. Now, what we've seen since the repeal of abortion rights under Roe v Wade in conservative states, ruby red Republican states, Ohio, Kansas, Kentucky, voters have come out in overwhelming numbers to protect abortion rights. So this is going to be on the ballot in Florida. If Joe Biden wins Florida, I mean, those swing states don't mean anything and he wins the election. So suddenly, is Florida in play because of the abortion issue? And that is a really big political question.

ANGE:

And the Biden team is, you know, undoubtedly fighting a tougher election against Donald Trump than they would have hoped or anticipated. How have they been responding on the campaign trail?

BRUCE:

They're really going after Trump as an extremist. In other words, over the Easter weekend, on Easter Sunday, Trump posted over 100 times on Truth Social, his social media platform. What did he do all day? He was on Truth Social all day. One anchor of, on MSNBC...okay, they're hostile of Trump, said he went on a bender and he just couldn't get off the phone.

Audio excerpt — MSNBC:

“From sunrise to sunset, the presumptive 2024 Republican nominee, spent the day airing his grievances and sharing far right news coverage that cast him in a positive light.”

BRUCE:

And so people are looking at this and saying, how come when Biden stumbles or he stutters or he may miss, misplace someone's name? Wow, the president has dementia. But Trump commits these atrocities all day. It’s happened so many times, oh there he goes again. But then it's normalised, that's Trump. Okay, so now we can just discount that and let's look at his policies. In other words, you’re normalising something that would normally disqualify any candidate in Australia for being prime minister because of how they conduct themselves. And so that's where it is. It's really interesting.

ANGE:

And finally Bruce, the legal challenges that are overhanging Trump, they're really filling up his diary with court appearances over the coming months, in the lead up to the election day. Just what kind of impact is that going to have on his campaign for the presidency?

BRUCE:

We haven't seen this before, so we really don't know but it's not good for him. I mean, he wants to be out campaigning. He hates every day he's in court. But he will use it... two things. First, he'll be in court every day when they take breaks or go out and talk to reporters. So we have wall to wall Trump. It's all Trump. all the time on the cable news channels. And so they will follow it. Exposure, you know he loves the exposure. So that's good. But I think you're going to have a split screen campaign, in other words, in court during the day and then he gets on the Trump Air Force One and he goes to his campaign rallies around the country. So, to Biden and everybody else, the question is, well, what do you really want? The American people. Do you want the defendant in chief, or you want a commander in chief? And go at it that way. We haven't seen it, so we're not sure exactly how it will play. But Trump, under all this pressure, he has a lot to do. And this will take up a lot of his time.

ANGE:

Bruce, thanks so much for your time today.

BRUCE:

Thank you.

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Ange:

Also in the news today…

Judgement in the defamation trial between Bruce Lehrmann and Channel 10 will be delayed until next week, with the court deciding it will consider new evidence contained in a bombshell statement given by a former Channel 7 TV producer.

In the statement, producer Taylor Auerbach claims the network paid for illicit drugs and sex workers for Bruce Lehrmann, in an effort to secure an exclusive interview.

And,

The prime minister Anthony Albanese revealed he had spoken personally to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to express Australia’s anger over the killing of Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom.

Albanese described Frankcom as an Australian the entire country can be proud of, and said she was committed to benefit her fellow humanity.

I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am. Thanks so much for listening, we’ll be back again tomorrow.

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